Mastering Spontaneity with Mark Guiliana

00:00:03: Hi, everyone and welcome back to the Benny Grep podcast.

00:00:07: And when I was in situations where i had to start to improvise a little more... ...I was stuck you know?

00:00:13: I would run out of things that I knew could play very quickly.

00:00:17: Even something as simple like hitting a crash without the bass drum is such different expression than- Oh yeah Without fail.

00:00:27: The most relaxed I am every day is when they say, okay Lola and we sit down to play.

00:00:35: That's the absolute most relaxed I am every day.

00:00:39: So Is The Love Supreme your coffee of music?

00:00:44: Yes A great coffee Of Music.

00:00:48: Today features the incredible Marc Giuliana.

00:00:52: As you've probably noticed by now... ...I have always been deeply fascinated with the process By the habits that were built The choices we make and how those decisions ultimately shape our voice on the instrument.

00:01:05: And even more, don't just influence how we

00:01:08: play.

00:01:09: they shape how we think... ...how we create –and ultimately–the path that we take as musicians.

00:01:16: In the longer I'm in this game myself….

00:01:18: …and the more conversations i've had with inspiring artists.. ..the more clearly certain patterns begin to emerge.

00:01:26: The priorities we set in the practice room inevitably echo our playing, improvisation and even how careers unfold.

00:01:37: This conversation with Mark is a powerful example of exactly that.

00:01:41: it comes from my archives recorded around time I was working on the book Effective Practicing for Musicians.

00:01:48: yet what's striking is clearly you can hear the foundation.

00:01:54: Since then, Mark's career has expanded in remarkable ways from his work with David Bowie to his own projects and solo performances.

00:02:03: But listening back it becomes clear that the DNA for all of is how he goes about things... ...how he thinks about music and instrument…and what he values.

00:02:15: This a deep and insightful conversation with truly unique voice on this instrument.

00:02:20: Mr Mark Giuliana

00:02:22: Enjoy!

00:02:23: Hi Mark

00:02:24: Good morning.

00:02:25: I'm very, very happy to have you here!

00:02:27: Very happy to be here thank you.

00:02:29: First of all what is practicing for you?

00:02:34: Well i think first the definition has changed over my musical career.

00:02:43: If was answer that from today's perspective Practicing now feels more like healthy maintenance More so than you know, the thing that I'm doing to get into next place.

00:02:58: Nowadays i feel like my growth comes inside of a musical situation and The things that might choose do on my own are just give myself best chance to play music that I'll be playing the best that i can.

00:03:17: So, often nowadays means very fundamental things which is why... The word maintenance is a little dull and not inspiring but to me those fundamental thing are deep passion and very inspiring when really attack them.

00:03:37: so..I'm very lucky that get play with some of my favorite musicians musician I can be.

00:03:48: And that's always the goal and the reward is to play music with other people, so nowadays practicing just makes sure i try do it every time i sit down.

00:04:03: you know when i was younger its much more about trying learn how things i couldn't.

00:04:12: but even then The things that I was practicing were always informed by musical situations.

00:04:24: So, very rarely would just sit and think what do i want to get better at?

00:04:31: And then invent a thing and work on it.

00:04:34: right It was quite often oh wow you know I was in college In a certain ensemble and someone called the tempo That I felt incredibly uncomfortable.

00:04:44: Now I know what to work on.

00:04:45: Right, you know but when i was a little younger it was uh today...I'm gonna try to work On this and I hope that by working on It gets more comfortable or more musical..On the other hand now though sometimes Im afraid To Work on anything too specific In with The idea of maybe it comes out in the same way That I practiced in the music that I'm playing, which a lot of the music i'm playing has a lot improvisation.

00:05:17: So almost as a little defense mechanism from that...I practice things again-the more real fundamental thing is..that would never think to use AS IS in musical situation.

00:05:31: so im not tempted play what ive been practicing verbatim because there's no place for that.

00:05:40: AS IS

00:05:42: Okay, wow.

00:05:42: It's kind

00:05:43: of a wandering answer I apologize no that's

00:05:45: great um.

00:05:46: so maintenance for me sounds like if you would put it negatively stopping the decay Of uh-huh.

00:05:53: is it something where you say?

00:05:54: Like i know The stuff that i'm practicing there but just i want to keep it really at the level Where i already had it.

00:06:01: Um it could be i think like the real Absolute best case scenario answer, which some days it feels like what you just described.

00:06:12: Like hey worst-case I want to keep it here so that the music... The growth happens inside of the music right?

00:06:19: So there is growth.

00:06:21: There Is this optimistic outlook Of moving forward and ahead And improving as a musician.

00:06:27: It's Just the practicing isn't necessarily the time for That.

00:06:31: hmm You know.

00:06:33: but on A good day if I'm really just, If i get the courage to turn my phone off and actually say you know what?

00:06:42: Im gonna go for this.

00:06:44: It's still eighth notes at seventy five on a pad.

00:06:49: but wow!

00:06:50: I lose myself And...I am improving as a musician by doing that and finding deeper place.

00:07:01: Really it goes far beyond music point.

00:07:04: The best days are a meditation that far exceeds the musical component I might be addressing, but still every time i sit down to play eighth if we put a metronome on and I played eight notes...I would hear ways to improve it always hearing ways to approve those things.

00:07:24: so for me a lot of it is why move?

00:07:27: Why even move

00:07:27: on?!

00:07:28: Of course yeah in doses all Excite my brain in more detailed ways, but for me because I can hear room for improvement In an optimistic way not like oh man Why isn't this perfect yet?

00:07:41: You know it's like great.

00:07:42: I know what to work on right now when i go from eighth notes To triplets.

00:07:46: Oh Man that second wasn't didn't feel great.

00:07:49: mm-hmm cool i'm just gonna live here and Again On a good day When I Can really Just Because Some Days I have the pessimistic thing of like, if i'm working on this... ...I'M NOT DOING THIS THIS THIS AND THIS.

00:08:06: Right?

00:08:06: I think about all things that im not doing by choosing to do it But in a good day its like.

00:08:10: oh my gosh!

00:08:11: This is THE BEST THING I CAN BE DOING RIGHT NOW And then IT ALL COMES TOGETHER.

00:08:16: Interesting.

00:08:17: so there are definitely people out there who practiced eighth notes before and they think it's no big deal.

00:08:23: You probably went through a phase like that too right?

00:08:27: What would you say is the difference between playing eighth notes and playing eight notes where this microcosm opens up?

00:08:38: I think it's just... The perspective, what really has improved most over time Is my listening.

00:08:47: So

00:08:49: when i was younger And probably said that I can play great eighth notes because My listening wasn't Super refined.

00:08:59: So that means you really felt it back then.

00:09:01: these are great eighth notes.

00:09:03: I wouldn't know what to improve, right?

00:09:05: Yes

00:09:05: so but now if You would stand beside yourself back Then you Would have a very different approach.

00:09:11: she would be like no i have To go back at It again and blah blah ah.

00:09:16: so basically your quality standard has changed of how a great eighth note should sound and

00:09:22: feel.

00:09:22: And I think it's... Of course, I'm relying on the sound that the eighth notes are creating but its feeling inside my body.

00:09:30: That is what i am really chasing.

00:09:34: So thats something that was absent when I was younger.

00:09:39: Maybe if you were to A-B the eighth notes from ten years ago now.

00:09:43: maybe this sound Minor difference, but I think the feeling my body is quite different from then till now.

00:09:52: But what it?

00:09:53: What a difference does that make?

00:09:55: because you probably have realized too That sometimes something can feel a certain way and when you listen back to do like oh It's very different than I thought.

00:10:05: so how When you focus so much on the feeling and say okay.

00:10:08: Okay, that doesn't sound at different Like How do you deal with them stuff like that?

00:10:14: Is it all your inside experience and that's then fine?

00:10:17: Or do you have a control mechanism of how it has to sound like.

00:10:23: Yeah, I think its the sound because no one else can feel.

00:10:26: only i can feel what im feeling.

00:10:28: so The Sound wins in that case for sure.

00:10:31: Um...I Think

00:10:34: You know or is there feelings in those eighth notes?

00:10:37: maybe other stuff that you separate from it?

00:10:39: So if you get a certain feeling in the eighth notes there, but it doesn't sound that much different.

00:10:43: This is the feeling then used for music stuff?

00:10:46: For playing stuff?

00:10:47: I think so!

00:10:48: It's...for me..I feel like because of the music There are so much improvising and being at this moment And really trying to actually improvise Really try to create something.

00:11:02: In those moments i've found That its'a confidence thing.

00:11:07: If I need to take a chance in the music and go for something that i'm not sure if it will land or not, um...I need to have the confidence to even go for it.

00:11:20: And For me It's much less about whether it really happened The way it should of-or Not..and Much more About....the path In the road Of making choices like That.....And the confidence if done with Confidence say it doesn't come out, I'm still gonna land in this place that i've earned.

00:11:41: You know?

00:11:41: Okay even if go for something and fail my time's going to be cool...I have been working on that you know..i am not gonga lose the one....i have been workin'on that.

00:11:51: so this kind of bed uh...this foundational practice every day continues to build my confidence to take chances.

00:12:02: So

00:12:04: you're failing on another level, basically.

00:12:07: It might not be as your planned but through the practicing it will come out differently than what I liked.

00:12:15: and still in time...

00:12:19: When i'm playing have a checklist of responsibilities You know?

00:12:24: And never want to make decision that will tarnish What I consider to be my main responsibilities, which is...I hope what we all share and can't speak for you.

00:12:35: But i assume he do of just giving the music a great feeling playing with a beautiful sound.

00:12:39: that's right for the music knowing-knowing The Repertoire or those things.

00:12:43: It isn't until Those Things are so confident And comfortable and clear inside the Music To other musicians That..i would even entertain the idea Of inserting injecting my own personality, you know?

00:12:59: So if those things are very strong...

00:13:01: You have a priority list basically.

00:13:02: ...totally.

00:13:03: and then If Those Things Are Really Clear And Feeling Good Then I might reach for other things.

00:13:12: but well knowing that even if these don't work out in perfect way or whatever it may be those responsibilities of what i'm giving the music hopefully is fundamental is just always there.

00:13:28: Right, you know?

00:13:28: So again that kind of practicing and feeling inside my body like wait actually these eighth notes are kinda cool.

00:13:37: so when I get to the music...I'm like wait i've earned the right.

00:13:42: maybe reach for some things not sure if they'll really happen

00:13:48: but do think then play something your body has never done before.

00:13:52: That's hard say!

00:13:55: In my mind, yeah.

00:13:59: I guess by definition it's hard to say... I don't know.

00:14:04: So is it right that you basically have a certain value system and set the frame of how big your playground so-to speak?

00:14:16: You've got these things.

00:14:17: that has to be met!

00:14:18: And you want to provide great time….

00:14:22: And then within that, when you decided upon that or just intuitively probably.

00:14:27: Then like oh where your playground is?

00:14:30: You've probably had times were you did practice though right?

00:14:35: How how did that start?

00:14:36: Did you play a lot with music and in the beginning said all definition of practicing has changed over years?

00:14:45: take me back to some other stuff.

00:14:48: maybe didn't Like separate that much like the experience of playing and experience.

00:14:55: Yeah, there was a time where I didn't have the confidence to Try to make any musical statement in a musical environment That I hadn't yet already heavily explored

00:15:07: mm-hmm.

00:15:07: so more preparing yes

00:15:09: Yes And um and and i love?

00:15:14: That too.

00:15:15: i love playing parts.

00:15:16: i think compositionally some my favorite drummers I didn't necessarily have much room to improvise in their environments and it's incredible.

00:15:28: The creation of those parts is just an improvisation happening over a long period of time, you know?

00:15:36: Yeah so for me i was really attracted... the music that brought me into the drums was Nirvana & Soundgarden where there are songs And there were fills that I would try to learn.

00:15:50: So yes, lots of emulation and really trying to you know even setting my drums up the same way that Matt Cameron set up but really trying like whoa!

00:16:03: Then it's left hand on the tom.

00:16:05: just start fill in tons of that.

00:16:09: It was when i got into jazz which is a little later That I realized system or that there is absolutely a system, but much less of like.

00:16:21: oh and When it goes to the bridge you do this.

00:16:24: No It's just yeah moment-to-moment.

00:16:27: so.

00:16:28: And when I was in situations where I had to start to improvise a little more I Was stuck You know?

00:16:35: I would run out of the things.

00:16:37: I knew I could play very quickly.

00:16:39: So that was really the turning point.

00:16:41: But yet went for the first four five years are playing.

00:16:45: it was You wouldn't have heard me play something in public that I hadn't built the confidence at home, but you know.

00:16:56: All right?

00:16:56: I would've had to.

00:16:57: yeah

00:16:57: Did you then go about like shit-I have to practice improvisation?

00:17:02: Yes

00:17:03: How did you go about it?

00:17:04: yes well actually there were really nice.

00:17:07: i think of a few guys as being a bridge from The more part based playing into improvising like somebody likes max roach has like a handful of really go-to material, and then it's the slight variations in each moment.

00:17:28: So the improvising is little more... It's

00:17:32: more an interpretation maybe?

00:17:34: Exactly!

00:17:35: In that moment.

00:17:35: but still there are these four or five six seven extremely identifiable You know, but it never to me.

00:17:46: It didn't feel like oh max you Know what's like a Mac?

00:17:50: Wow yeah that thing of course You know he's always reaching for those things But making them appropriate for that moment in the music.

00:17:59: how Listening you know.

00:18:02: so

00:18:02: when-to-play walk where

00:18:04: they play what orchestration.

00:18:07: and That's when I started to really value Okay if you were to play ba-ba, ba-bop on the rack tom.

00:18:16: And then you would play bo-bo-bo bo-bope On The Floor Tom those are two completely beautifully independent ideas and they have equal value equal weight.

00:18:27: It's not here is this same thing?

00:18:28: I'm that it's on the floor tom.

00:18:30: now right and That for me when i was younger They weren't to different things like oh yeah so valuing Those interpretations and what orchestration can do emotionally how does melody sound on the floor, Tom.

00:18:45: How will it influence other musicians?

00:18:48: And that's when I was like okay instead of having five hundred ideas you can't mess with just give me five or two.

00:18:57: and if you say...you have ultimate freedom to manipulate these two ideas i would take any day because thats what we'll open door

00:19:11: Love it, because its an example of what you said earlier that like when your playing might not be different but there is something in mindset almost a mental fitness than bigger.

00:19:22: Because playing the same thing on two different sound sources Is for the body maybe the same rudiment.

00:19:28: That's why many people have saved It Like.

00:19:31: But When You Take The Playing And The Physical Experience Out Of It the sound then is very, very different and it's maybe even more different than playing a role here.

00:19:42: And they're not a roll here.

00:19:44: that might sound the same on this snare but feel very, Very Different.

00:19:48: so beautiful!

00:19:51: I had really nice lesson.

00:19:53: one of my favorite drummers was a guy named Dan Weiss.

00:19:56: Uh, Dan's a few years older than me and when I got to college.

00:20:02: I was checking out music in New York And heard him immediately i was like hey, I want to study with you You know.

00:20:06: so this is like two thousand.

00:20:08: Start taking a couple lessons.

00:20:10: Incredible musician great teacher.

00:20:13: and he was Still is but it was really Playing a lot of tabla and studying with his guru.

00:20:19: It still you know?

00:20:20: And I just thought like oh yeah, it's like percussion cool.

00:20:23: I wanna learn.

00:20:24: Can you help me with that?

00:20:25: He's like, no.

00:20:26: If you want to do it You gotta go.

00:20:27: my teacher really beautiful.

00:20:30: And so I started studying with Samir Chatterjee and now i'm in college.

00:20:36: It stopped after six months out of deep respect for them For me.

00:20:43: I realized looking back...it was as if I starting studying clarinet Just because I could get around on the drum set does not mean you know, so that was a really

00:20:56: rhythmic.

00:20:56: Oh yeah Yeah drums So and it was invaluable time You know?

00:21:03: I learned actually a lot of it Was just the theory of the music right.

00:21:07: feel like i'd just got my you Know just a bit to where as a listener i can appreciate On a deeper level and all these things.

00:21:14: anyway That was great Because n-tube bring that even into the drum set of like, we just take it for granted.

00:21:23: That you know a snare drum and a ride cymbal belong together but they're quite different instruments.

00:21:30: to try to appreciate those difference and exploit those differences You know?

00:21:37: Even something as simple as hitting a crash without the bass drum is such Expression.

00:21:45: oh, yeah then you know and all these things

00:21:47: that we so sexy to disappoint Expectations

00:21:50: right

00:21:51: like what a powerful thing To be like huh?

00:21:55: And to build that out of anything in a lot of comedy is made Like That where you built something up.

00:22:00: You just pull the rock underneath.

00:22:03: it's an incredibly emotional effect that that Is so paralleled to.

00:22:08: always like this is what These five fills We'll always work in Latin or like how we really teach and how, how we preach a lot of that stuff.

00:22:19: So yeah Oh Yeah That crash without the bass drum thing

00:22:23: incredible.

00:22:24: And then it gets to point where You know.

00:22:27: just use what you said as an example Like What's a fill?

00:22:32: What even is a fill?

00:22:34: Can I not be a fill?

00:22:39: Right Those kinds of things I quickly had to... Now, I've had amazing teachers that I feel like should acknowledge.

00:22:49: Joe Bergamini an incredible musician great teacher.

00:22:52: he was my first teacher very lucky and then i uh it's with him for four years in the night is what John Riley.

00:22:59: for a couple year and those times I didn't have any ability think from myself.

00:23:07: I needed them to give me, okay next week we're gonna do this.

00:23:10: and it was... This fill.

00:23:12: This beat.

00:23:14: This book.

00:23:15: I need that.

00:23:16: so they

00:23:16: structured your practice?

00:23:17: Oh yeah because i didn't have any of my own ideas.

00:23:21: Well

00:23:22: really well That's how I look back like I needed that step by step And you know the regime Of books and way things are organized in that sense.

00:23:36: But as we kind of touched on, it got into like wait if I'm improvising.

00:23:42: Like i can't just look over to the music stand and there will be ideas for me.

00:23:45: so that's when it had to get reprogrammed.

00:23:48: but...I say that now.

00:23:50: like..i don't want to be all hippy in like-there is no such thing as a fill!

00:23:54: Like I do value that right?

00:23:56: And I went through that structure and uh needed it.

00:24:01: Now its like what's a

00:24:03: crash?!

00:24:06: You know, why is it not right?

00:24:08: Yeah.

00:24:09: It's yeah cool

00:24:11: I want to get more into the More where the rubber hits the road kind of stuff like.

00:24:16: do you have any rituals when you practice?

00:24:19: Do we have any certain things that you have to have?

00:24:23: To always turn your mother over like because he touched on that very shortly.

00:24:28: When we practice We have distractions.

00:24:30: We need maybe certain equipment.

00:24:32: Do you write down, do you document?

00:24:34: What do you

00:24:34: do?".

00:24:35: I don't document.

00:24:36: You know what...you mentioned this last night.

00:24:38: or i've heard you talk about journaling and it's like something that I admire even just away from music Just getting ideas out And might pass through phases.

00:24:50: It is yet to become a consistent thing.

00:24:55: For me the journaling Is The Music Actually.

00:25:02: So more and more things get recorded.

00:25:03: I'm not like a record every gig in listen back that night or the next day, but one more thing's get recorded.

00:25:10: as you know You're out your out maybe certain some things on the radio Or someone posts a little thing.

00:25:15: so That's kind of the real-life journaling of life.

00:25:22: Yes The only ritual which is loose Is this Really, you know eighth notes and triplets in sixteenth notes.

00:25:35: You know with the metronome I usually just single stroke so it's really much more for my mind than my body.

00:25:44: And So you always want to do that or your when

00:25:47: i pick up sticks?

00:25:47: That kind of start doing that right now.

00:25:49: Yeah, yeah, and and from me on a good day It feels good, and I'm like oh cool this feels good and on a bad day It's not a bad day.

00:25:59: On a different day, it doesn't feel so good and actually I'm as optimistic as when it feels good because its like cool!

00:26:07: Im on the right path.

00:26:08: This isn't done You know?

00:26:11: It gives me this.

00:26:12: Ah yes...this is where i belong you know?

00:26:16: Its almost more exciting When there..when it's not great

00:26:22: Great.

00:26:23: So we take judgment out of in just accept Like it as a fact and be like, okay.

00:26:29: What's to do?

00:26:30: There are days where I'm like Why can't i play triplets that feel good right you know like all right cool gonna Do it tomorrow.

00:26:40: Or is It like this carrot on A stick That's bound To your back Thing Where You Of Course Would Be super happy with Those Triplets Maybe like five Years ago of

00:26:49: course

00:26:50: yes but But You Constantly Kind of Expand Your criticism and your like fine tuning, or alarm system of what it should be.

00:27:00: So that's why you never catch

00:27:01: on?

00:27:01: That's as well for sure right?

00:27:03: the listening improves.

00:27:05: yeah

00:27:07: I feel Like The sound can always improve.

00:27:10: the feeling in my body can improve more relaxed more Yeah.

00:27:15: And that's where becomes the meditative aspect to how quiet Can My mind Be How Still Can i Be You know.

00:27:25: And then because it's trying to learn and develop a relationship with that feeling, right?

00:27:31: Can I bring that the more busier moments than the more active moments.

00:27:37: So I'm still... The more I can learn about that feeling closer or the more specific i can be.

00:27:45: what look for when all cylinders are really firing you know

00:27:52: Or would even go that far?

00:27:55: Because listening to you talking about this I almost have the question of how important is This physical aspect of practicing for you really or?

00:28:06: Is it maybe just an excuse To have a little bit of meditation time like do you think It's may be.

00:28:14: Just maybe i can get to The same place if i would, just sit down and

00:28:19: well that's something.

00:28:21: What's that not at the job

00:28:22: without the drums?

00:28:23: Well,

00:28:23: that's harder for me like it.

00:28:25: That's interesting.

00:28:26: when I sit down It's like okay you know The row of life on the road.

00:28:31: ok wake up early got two flights.

00:28:33: You get to this forgot to eat lunch and now we're at the sound.

00:28:37: all this chaos, you know.

00:28:38: Ok flights delayed were going straight through the game Without fail.

00:28:43: the most relaxed i am every day is When they say and we sit down to play.

00:28:52: That's the absolute most relaxed I am every day, amazing!

00:28:58: So i wish i could get that away from the drums... And thats-I'm trying too you know?

00:29:03: Everyday im trynna find it in other ways but yes.. The drums have become this like now we can just play.

00:29:11: Amazing You Know.

00:29:14: But that comes only happen with

00:29:17: You trained that feeling Probably right.

00:29:20: and the again, I wish there was a more sexier word than maintenance but that maintenance like work of like to Keep my confidence get my confidence to place it every time.

00:29:32: I sit down like nothing can go wrong.

00:29:35: now worse And how everything's okay?

00:29:38: You know and I can kind of escape real life for an hour.

00:29:43: you know Right

00:29:45: But isn't that also trick?

00:29:46: when you off course say there is no wrong then you can say nothing can go wrong.

00:29:50: And especially...

00:29:53: You just are open enough to see what's coming.

00:29:56: and really for me if, If you were to start to try to dream up things that could go wrong.

00:30:01: so now I'm speaking from a very fortunate place of uh i'm presenting my own music.

00:30:08: it's My Guys It's-I Can't Feel More Comfortable You Know.

00:30:12: but if we Were To Try To Invent Things That Could Go Wrong.

00:30:15: Okay The Beater Falls Out Hell yeah, now what are we gonna do?

00:30:22: Now I gotta look for new solutions.

00:30:23: Now... Beautiful!

00:30:25: ...I'm really present Mm-hmm right i can't reach For that thing That works.

00:30:30: the floor tom leg slips and The Floor Tom I'm Gonna Reach I'm going to play the shell I'm Going To Play the bottom head.

00:30:36: now What's over here?

00:30:37: this is that no actually yearn for those moments.

00:30:43: I wouldn't Go so far as to create Those Moments.

00:30:47: No, you just need someone to travel with you.

00:30:50: To sabotage your every evening

00:30:52: exactly.

00:30:53: but

00:30:53: can I have that job?

00:30:54: Absolutely no.

00:30:55: But really those are the moments where immediately i feel like whoa i'm alive right now and i'm in this moment because i gotta Now what

00:31:06: yeah a beautiful way Like too Because i think most people practice In a way and play in away or live in a way actually Where The amount of preparation and the amount of control of environment in this situation, that is where they will get their security from.

00:31:25: That's when we'll get there relaxness for them to know what gonna happen with a no so no variety.

00:31:31: thats would gives relaxation.

00:31:34: So you train yourself and move towards an area were You become good at it actually love Variety and surprise, and stuff that can happen.

00:31:50: So you get your calmness out of?

00:31:53: Yeah reacting in playing with whatever happens.

00:31:56: That is amazing.

00:31:57: And don't get me wrong if you know I it that sameness is.

00:32:02: i do Like If I was to set up my drums when he came and moved the cymbal stand an eighth of a centimeter, I'll come back and i'll notice.

00:32:11: And i'll readjust it.

00:32:12: you know there is that attention to detail in the environment for sure

00:32:18: right?

00:32:19: For sure?

00:32:19: so I have that.

00:32:21: um You know we were hanging with Eric Carlin last weekend.

00:32:25: Is that a contradiction

00:32:25: then

00:32:26: though?

00:32:26: Well what I love is make the box really clear.

00:32:32: Here is our working environment.

00:32:34: Right here It is...and this Now, anything goes.

00:32:39: Right?

00:32:40: I'm not good at...

00:32:42: So if the symbol then moves after you set it up perfectly Then You will not get freaked out by it.

00:32:49: Absolutely Not!

00:32:50: Absolutely NOT!

00:32:51: So It's like okay i've created this environment.

00:32:54: now If something comes in yeah..if new Yeah..If Like The stand slips.

00:33:03: Oh This is exciting but I wouldn't just put it there.

00:33:07: Yeah, yeah.

00:33:08: Because that is too random.

00:33:10: Yes!

00:33:11: It's like the painter who really organizes all his stuff or the cook who organizes to then make a creative mess.

00:33:19: Absolutely So.

00:33:20: The Painter has All these colors and he can without looking reach for the green.

00:33:25: And it comes.

00:33:26: but on the way His sleeve happened... His elbow caught some red.

00:33:32: Now there are red.

00:33:32: Ooh now what am I gonna do with them?

00:33:34: Beautiful that kind of stuff.

00:33:38: So the intention is hopefully sharp, but imperfect in a beautiful way and embracing all of the unintentional moments too.

00:33:48: Great!

00:33:49: Okay any things to practice you find underrated?

00:33:55: For me I think an extremely overwhelmingly underrated thing allowing yourself to feel joy at the instrument.

00:34:11: For me, The joyful moments are why I play music and what keep me coming back to music.

00:34:19: So okay maybe those moments that bring me joy At the instrument might not be the most productive.

00:34:26: quote-unquote practicing right.

00:34:28: but That feeling is keeps me in the seat and will get back to my seat tomorrow.

00:34:35: And that's when, in due time... The good real practicing with a capital P. That stuff will happen.

00:34:45: But if I don't want be at instrument Nothing is going to happen.

00:34:50: So for some days where i say I'm gonna work on this certain thing Actually, to give a very specific example Billy Martin wrote an incredible book about kind of claves from around the world and just nice orchestrations on the drums.

00:35:06: And it really is all about music.

00:35:08: but man that's such coordination thing independence things so something not completely natural to sit down and rip through these pages because hiccuping alot I want to get this.

00:35:27: And on a given day, my brain is not letting me do

00:35:41: that."

00:35:45: And I'm just floating for the rest of the day.

00:35:48: Amazing!

00:35:49: Then, maybe next time we'll go back in and take another crack at it... ...and be in a better place or more focused on something else?

00:35:57: I will get to that.

00:35:59: Another thing is there's no rush.

00:36:02: There isn't any rush.

00:36:05: It's also an important point because you know what makes you feel good.

00:36:09: if someone would ask Come on, just do something that makes you feel good.

00:36:14: You would know like okay I'll play to this.

00:36:17: yeah absolutely maybe some people don't have that.

00:36:20: Maybe Some People Don't Know Like A Certain Way To Be Like You Know What

00:36:24: Interesting.

00:36:25: So That's Maybe Good To Get A Repertoire Or Like A Selection Of Things To Go To Be.

00:36:32: Hey!

00:36:33: Do You Feel Like You Don'T Want To Play Drums Anymore?

00:36:36: Do That?

00:36:37: It always works.

00:36:38: Yes, and for me being on the road listening to music I have that my go-to.

00:36:45: So you are on this second flight of the day?

00:36:47: And he didn't sleep last night.

00:36:48: it's like all right.

00:36:50: well i'm gonna put On a love supreme and just transport myself.

00:36:54: so is The Love Supreme your coffee Of Music?

00:36:58: yes A great Coffee of music but yeah there Are the few.

00:37:03: I really try to do my best to stay up on new music and all that, you know.

00:37:08: Really especially so many friends with incredible music.

00:37:11: um... That just trying to keep up knowing what everybody's doing and enjoying it is enough but i listen to the same music SO MUCH.

00:37:24: So much!

00:37:27: And i love it.

00:37:28: Yeah, I love it.

00:37:29: So...I'm always trying to find that balance but man without fail.

00:37:34: you know this morning i put on an R Blakey record and so now I have eleven thousand albums in my phone whatever It may be!

00:37:43: I reached for that one.

00:37:46: That is gonna just give me that certain feeling that its like a old friend.

00:37:50: You can really rely.

00:37:52: You know, I'm gonna reach for that.

00:37:53: So yes in my practicing sometimes there are those old friends where it's like.

00:37:58: at the very least if i'm going to sit down Absolutely, I want to just reaffirm My relationship with the drums and music.

00:38:07: Beautiful

00:38:08: so That?

00:38:10: I will be continue to be inspired To do The more quote-unquote Practicing stuff you Know.

00:38:16: perfect We're almost out of time.

00:38:20: Any last words, anyone who says like man I want to get to where Mark is.

00:38:24: Like what should i do today?

00:38:28: I think practicing drums will make you a better drummer.

00:38:34: playing music with other people will make your better musician.

00:38:37: and for me um if I ever had to choose between it in a given okay What are you going to do tonight If I ever have to choose Between having an opportunity To play With Other People or Practicing Twenty out of twenty times play with other people.

00:38:55: I'd also go so far as to say, if ever had the chance to go see live music a musician that i really admire over...I could go see someone play or practice every time.

00:39:08: go see it because again It's more this bigger inspiration That will then take home With me and we'll get Me through To the practicing.

00:39:18: So those things especially being around New York Every night there's an opportunity to and you know when I was younger.

00:39:25: Oh, but all my friends are home practicing.

00:39:29: Is it okay?

00:39:29: To go see Bill Stewart Are you kidding me?

00:39:33: that's

00:39:34: always okay growing

00:39:36: way more by sitting three feet from his hi-hat in this little basement club.

00:39:42: i mean And now i'm gonna take that vivid memory and experience home with me.

00:39:47: That'll keep me practicing for the next six months.

00:39:52: So for me, it's those things.

00:39:53: I think the real growth from me has come from playing with other people is relied on the practicing.

00:40:01: I needed to practice to get in the room with those people but that's really you know?

00:40:06: It really started to happen then.

00:40:10: so beautiful!

00:40:12: And this very lovingly and optimistically.

00:40:18: don't rely on anybody else.

00:40:20: Don't wish for a certain environment or you can certainly wish, but don't sit around and hope that someone calls you to play in a certain way or a certain environmental

00:40:31: because he might be disappointed.

00:40:33: Or just create an environment And it doesn't have to.

00:40:36: It could Just Be.

00:40:37: You know what?

00:40:37: The first Tuesday of every month I get together with my buddies and we Play improvised metal.

00:40:45: Yeah

00:40:46: Okay No one's gonna call me To do That.

00:40:48: But if I really have an itch to make a statement like that, just create the environment.

00:40:54: We're never gonna play gig.

00:40:55: we're not going to make our record.

00:40:57: forget about all these expectations.

00:40:59: Create the environment and see what that experience does for you You know.

00:41:04: so i think So many beautiful things can happen behind closed doors And they don't have To be.

00:41:11: It doesn't have to Be your band Your one statement or this?

00:41:15: Its Like um...I Really Think its Easier Than Ever.

00:41:19: just find some guys or girls with similar interests, create the environment do it.

00:41:26: You know what I get often when i say this?

00:41:28: I think people often expect that to be perfect.

00:41:31: then so... So What I often get is like yeah!

00:41:35: I have people around me but This bass player's not that good Or this keyboard players' Not That Good.

00:41:40: What would you Say To Someone?

00:41:41: Then?

00:41:41: Who Says Like Yeah..I could meet on Friday With my friends But I want to play with better musicians.

00:41:49: Well, I think What you will learn about your own musicianship by playing with someone of any level Are things?

00:41:58: You can't learn by yourself.

00:42:00: You know.

00:42:01: so even if now it's a valuable skill to be able to Agree on a time field With someone what maybe not the strongest time feel

00:42:12: right

00:42:12: do you know?

00:42:13: okay?

00:42:14: So in a perfect world You're always playing with musicians that are better than you and hopefully being pushed to the, slowly raising your own level.

00:42:24: But more I actually think there's...I am envious of.

00:42:31: like many beginning musicians they have access to some emotional things in some choices on their instrument That you or i would never make now because we've thought too much And done too much work.

00:42:46: There are days where I wish i could play like my sixteen year old self and I can't.

00:42:52: Actually, because when the music school did all this stuff so there's some youthful ignorance that kind of stuff that no longer have access to.

00:43:03: And maybe if you played with other people who make choices like them Maybe they can rub off on you.

00:43:10: Wow he is free Times a little funny, but man he's just like... He's just.

00:43:17: it's bliss.

00:43:18: You know how can I get that?

00:43:21: So i think not to be uh well i'm choosing to be optimistic and then that's a choice.

00:43:29: you know also if you want take this other path you are offering this other musician an opportunity too.

00:43:39: better themselves your musicianship with others and at the very least, you know They won't be that musician forever.

00:43:51: It could lead to really great stuff You never know

00:43:54: And that's more important to you than being better or of being the best right?

00:43:58: Absolutely Yeah, and I have absolutely played with people That um...I didn't feel like i belonged in The same room with her things Like that.

00:44:08: so who am I when it's my turn To reject the opportunity?

00:44:13: You know, so I mean there's that of course.

00:44:17: Yeah So

00:44:19: amazing yeah.

00:44:20: and again a clear priority list from you like when you said before at rather watch your gig i'd rather play then practice oh?

00:44:30: Your emphasis is really on the practicing is fine And I'll do that and I get to certain state by That.

00:44:36: it's a gateway too to meditative state or two relaxation.

00:44:41: But for you still the priority is to feeding your heart, feeding your mind so that you can express yourself through that.

00:44:48: Beautiful!

00:44:50: Yes yes.

00:44:51: and then I love the drums...I love playing the drums.. I love trying to make solo statements as well but really the drug is

00:45:01: into action.

00:45:02: And just playing music with other people.

00:45:06: So if it's a goal I just want to be in that environment as much possible, yeah.

00:45:16: Thank you so much for your time.

00:45:18: My pleasure!

00:45:19: Thanks all

00:45:22: right i hope you've enjoyed this conversation.

00:45:24: if You haven't already make sure To check out everything.

00:45:27: mark is doing a huge fan and to me

00:45:29: he's truly

00:45:30: one

00:45:30: of the great voices on This instrument.

00:45:34: If you'd like to explore more of my work, head over to BennyGrabb.com and if want go deeper into the practicing approach we often touch on here You'll find effective practising for musicians there as well both a book or an audiobook.

00:45:51: Whatever your upto next I hope.

00:45:53: have great rest of your day Feel free tune in again.

00:45:56: next month There will be solo episode where i reflect on specific topic And share some thoughts & ideas.

00:46:05: And before we wrap up, a sincere thank you to everyone who's been reaching out with messages feedback and kind words.

00:46:12: It really means a lot and doesn't go unnoticed so... Thank you so much!

00:46:15: Thanks for listening and see you next time bye-bye.